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interviews

Interviews with exhibiting artists, event participants and leading figures from a wide variety of fields

Q&A with William Sutcliffe, author of the recent critically acclaimed novel, The Wall.

the wallblog

Q1/ How did you come to write The Wall and how does it differ from the work that you had done beforehand?

The Wall in the West Bank has troubled me for a long time, and for years I have been searching for a way to write about it. Then it struck me that one of the common tropes of children’s literature is the character who escapes from his or her mundane, ordinary world through some kind of portal into a parallel, fantastical universe. I began to think that religious fundamentalists, such as the religious nationalist settlers in the West Bank, raise their children with utterly fantastical beliefs. In telling the story of a settler child who crosses from one side of the wall to the other, I realised that I could invert this fictional trope, with a narrative about a child raised in a world of fantasy who discovers a portal to reality.

The goal from the start was to write a book, like Animal Farm, that would work for younger readers as a metaphorical narrative about justice and power set in a fictional universe, but for adult readers as political fiction about a real situation.

Tonally, this novel has something in common with my 4th novel, Bad Influence, which also dealt with a young person struggling to comprehend an extreme moral quandary, but in most ways this novel is very different from the books I have published before. It is far more serious, and more overtly political than anything I have attempted before. I don’t actually think there is anything “unserious” about humour, but the situation in the West Bank is not one that is remotely funny, so there was no scope for comedy in this novel. The way you write is dictated by the story as it unfolds in front of you. This is part of the joy of writing. You start with a simple idea, and it leads you into territory where you have to find a new mode of expression for yourself. Any book that doesn’t contain this journey of discovery probably isn’t worth writing.

Q2/ What kind of research did you do when writing the novel? 

I took two separate research trips. The first one was as part of the Palestine Literary Festival, visiting all the main Palestinian towns in the West Bank and participating in events, talks and seminars with local writers. I later took a second trip, in which I stayed with three settler families in different settlements in the West Bank. The two itineraries overlapped but never intersected due to tunnels and segregated roads. The geography of the West Bank is like nowhere else. These trips weren’t particularly extended, but they were intense, and I had excellent guides with me who taught me an enormous amount.

Both trips were deeply troubling in very different ways, and taught me an enormous amount that I could never have learned from home-based research. However much you have read on the subject, seeing what a 46-year-long military occupation looks like is shocking and depressing.

I have moved a few things around through time and place, but I have gone out of my way to make the physical setting entirely accurate. The book may read like a fantasy dystopia, but in many ways, it is reportage.

3/ Has the novel had the kind of response that you expected it to have? 

My biggest worry in writing this book was that people actually living under the occupation might think it was a betrayal of their suffering, or presented a dishonest picture of the place. The fact that the book has had enthusiastic responses from Palestinian writers such as Raja Shehadeh and Palestinian diaspora writers like Selma Dabbagh and Susan Abulhawa means an enormous amount to me.

I was expecting a more vitriolic response from the bloggers, journalists and internet-ranters who make a habit of attacking anyone who dares to criticise Israel, but so far these people have mostly ignored the book. I can’t say I’m looking forward to getting onto their radar, but most of the people in the UK who defend the occupation have never actually seen it, and their arguments are extremely thin, so I don’t see what they could say to undermine the book. Perhaps that’s why they are ignoring it.

Join William Sutcliffe in conversation with Selma Dabbagh, 7pm, 31 October 2013, at The Mosaic Rooms.

Q&A with award winning poet Pascale Petit

 

Pascale Petit has published five poetry collections, three have been shortlisted for the TS Eliot Prize, and has featured in Books of the Year in the Observer, Times Literary Supplement and Independent. She also runs special poetry workshops in museums and galleries, using art to reflect on how to give shape to poems and make images with words. She has worked on a special publication with artist Lawand produced especially for his upcoming exhibition Equinox, From Beirut to London.
pascalepetitblog

Q1/ You have just collaborated with the artist Lawand to produce a new publication which is directly inspired by the works included in his upcoming exhibition LAWAND: Equinox, From Beirut to London. Can you tell us more about this project?

The Mosaic Rooms invited me to write poems in response to thirty-four of Lawand’s new drawings, to be printed alongside them in a publication for the exhibition. I had never seen his work before and was stunned by the power of his figures, emerging from mist, so ethereal and wounded, yet bathed in hard-won light. I knew at once that it would be an exciting challenge to write them.

I wrote fifteen in all, while I was in Paris this summer. Each day I got up very early and immersed myself in his art – the paintings full-screen on my laptop, copies of the drawings pinned on the walls. My desk was at a window that opened onto a courtyard with vine-covered walls. Wood pigeons had nested there and I witnessed the first flights of both chicks. This fed into my poems, as some of Lawand’s figures seem to be attempting flight.

Although I drew on my personal family history to make my figure-poems, I wanted to make them everyman/woman as well, which I understand to be Lawand’s aim. In the background there is the shadow of the terrible situation in his homeland Syria, though like him I did not address this overtly.

Q2/ You often use artwork as an inspiration for your poetry, can you tell us more about this practise?

My last book What the Water Gave Me: Poems after Frida Kahlo was a collection written in the voice of the Mexican artist, where each poem has the title of one of her paintings. What I was interested in was the way she made art out of pain. That was my way in, the transformation of pain to paint. She was seriously injured in a bus crash when she was a teenager and was disabled for the rest of her life, but she wasn’t a sad character, she was full of joie-de-vivre.

I trained as a visual artist and spent the first part of my life as a sculptor. When I decided to concentrate on poetry I still needed to make my poems as visceral as my sculptures; I try to make poems that are physical as objects, installations or paintings. Images are paramount, and artists influence my work – Lawand is a new influence. I also tutor poetry workshops in galleries and have taught at Tate Modern for seven years. I’ll be doing a workshop in the Lawand exhibition (Poetry from Art: Writing The Body), which I’m very much looking forward to. I can’t wait to see what everyone writes when they see those amazing paintings!

Q3/What are you working on right now?

My sixth collection Fauverie. It’s based in Paris where I was born. It’s where I spent the first seven years of my life and where I met my estranged father before he died of emphysema. The ‘fauverie’ is both his tiny room where he was confined to oxygen and the Fauverie – the big-cat house – in the Ménagerie of the Jardin des Plantes, which I am obsessed with. There’s a black jaguar there, Aramis, who to me epitomises the Amazon, where I have travelled.

Pascale Petit will lead a special one day poetry workshop entitled ‘Poetry From Art: Writing the Body’ on Monday 14 October, 11am-5pm. This one-day workshop will introduce participants to different poetic responses to contemporary art using our current exhibition for inspiration. BOOK NOW

Q&A with Palestinian fashion designer Omarivs Ioseph Filivs Dinæ

Omarivs Ioseph Filivs Dinæ is a Palestinian fashion designer living and working between Palestine, London and Beirut. To coincide with London Fashion Week he reveals his most recent work and creations Official Portrait; the final phase of The Ceremonial Vniform project. More information. 

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© Omarivs Ioseph Filivs Dinæ & Tarek Moukaddem MMXIII.

1/ Tell us briefly about yourself (where are you based / what are you studying/ where have you previously exhibited etc.)

I am officially based in Palestine, Jerusalem. Still I move around very regularly and work across several places including Ramallah, Beit-Sahour, Birzeit as well as London and Beirut. It is not very ideal this nomadic lifestyle. An inevitable pattern of life under occupation; when you are lucky to have the appropriate papers that allow you to move more freely in occupied Palestine and abroad you have to go to people and the world, because usually it’s not easy the other way around.

I officially graduated with a BA in Fashion Design and Technology from London College of Fashion in 2010. I decided to apply for an MA in Social Anthropology earlier this year and received an offer from Goldsmiths in London. I start in 2014, which will give me enough time to fundraise. The decision to go back to academia was mostly prompted by a need to understand my own practice, which heavily relies on social history and ethnography.

My first ever exhibition, Silk Thread Martyrs, in 2011 was at the Mosaic Rooms in London. That same year it was shown again in Jerusalem as part of Yabous’ Jerusalem Festival, and I curated my first exhibition, Beyond Æsthetics, at Birzeit University Museum (BZUM). Beyond Æsthetics was great fun because I did not have to worry about making things or showing my own work. It was about interpreting and displaying the objects in the Museum’s ethnographic collections and playing with what already existed. I had a lot of freedom and a lot of support.

In 2012 I collaborated again with BZUM on a more conceptual exhibition called Museum Seat of the Mvse. At the same time I was working on my Young Artist of the Year Award 2012 entry, the Ceremonial Vniform MMXII. This was barely completed in time for the exhibition, at the A.M. Qattan Foundation in Ramallah later that year. Typically I was not satisfied with the final product, so in 2013 when some works from the show were exhibited at the Mosaic Rooms (YAYA12), I decided to show different aspects from the work and withhold others. I showed the ‘Presidential Panel’ and the ‘PLO Clogs’, which were value-laden objects with a lot of work and process invested in them. This also gave me the chance to elaborate on each object.

2/ Since you exhibited at The Mosaic Rooms, you have been busy working on a project entitled: Official Portrait, which was unveiled during London Fashion Week. Can you briefly tell us how this came about and describe what it includes?

 Well, Official Portrait is effectively the final phase in The Ceremonial Vniform. It basically is the photo-shoot of the collection. The collection is not really a series of outfits but rather a collection of manuals, techniques, samples, garments and accessories that imagine a system of dress for male officials in a would be Palestinian State. I wanted to create an image that would not only show these but that would continue the concept of the artwork. So I thought of painted European portraits and state pictures which show the sitter in a very particular and relevant setting. The props in those were always significant and usually referenced the background of the portrayed person. Some were metaphors others were exceptionally explicit statements on power, class, experience, etc. So the fruits in the pictures, the ottoman furniture, the flowers the draped fabrics, and the bit of wall showing in the left corner; these are all very deliberate symbols and references.

Beirut was the only place I could have produced images like this, first because I could work with Tarek Moukaddem, my Lebanese photographer and visual artist friend. We met in 2009 outside a bar in Beirut after he showed interest in a pair of sirwal-jeans I was wearing and wanted me to make him a pair. Our first collaboration was in December 2010 on the Silk Thread Martyrs shoot, right before the show in 2011. Once he gets down to shoot, it all becomes effortless and genius, not so much the preparation and settling on the concept or style though.

Official Portrait would have never looked the same though had it not been for the sitters/models. Abu Zuhair and Abu Saleh are Syrian workers who have to live and work in Beirut for all sorts of reasons. Their involvement was intentional, as I was looking for someone who was not familiar with modeling or posing for fashion. What was very interesting was the unexpected calm with which the entire shoot was conducted. It was August, so it was super hot and super humid in the studio and they were in layers and layers of fabric. Even though they had never done anything like this before, everything fell into place. There was very little direction or posing. It was brilliant. Initially I did not see it, but what both men bring to the image and narrative is in terrible sync with the project itself. They were both in a place where they have never been before, in reality and on the constructed set, which reflect the concept of the Ceremonial Vniform, especially in terms of awkwardness and imposition.

I am also aware that there could be a lot of romance and discourse spun around these two men. Especially because of their life experience, nationality and circumstances that have led to them working and living in Beirut. It’s very tricky because, had these men been professional models, their life experiences and identities would almost be totally irrelevant. It’s something to think about.

3/ Can you tell us about any exhibitions you visited recently that you found interesting/ inspiring?

Do it at the Manchester Art Gallery curated by Hans-Ulrich Obrist. The exhibition was not in the least inspiring, but very interesting. It made me think about the emergence of these super-star contemporary art curators, who more commonly tend to be male and the power they yield. Comparing them to the celebrity designers in fashion put me on an interesting trajectory of thought…It provoked something more of an academic though process, rather than a moment of euphoric epiphany and insight!

Q&A with author, writer, editor and curator Malu Halasa

 

Malu Halasa will be in conversation with Nicolas Bellavance-Lecompte,co-founder of Carwan Gallery and Lebanese designer, Najla El Zein on Saturday 14 September, 12pm at The Mosaic Rooms. FREE, rsvp@mosaicrooms.org

1/ What Middle Eastern design are you looking at?

Because I write and produce books that have a visual component to them, I’m very interested in publications design from the region. Dar Onboz produces a wide range of material from children’s books to flip books, films, music, and shadow puppet plays. It is a cornucopia of compelling innovative design. Pascal Zoghbi is an Arabic typographer and graphic designer at the studio 29 Letters who has co-edited groundbreaking books such as Arabic Graffiti. Then there is the multidisciplinary design team from Solidere, under the creative direction of Nathalie El Mir, the group behind the biannual urbanist and architectural journal I was working for, in Beirut, Portal 9: Stories and Critical Writing about the City, edited by Fadi Tofeili. I also always keep up with the projects of my co-editor of The Secret Life of Syrian Lingerie, Rana Salam. She was instrumental in teaching me how to ‘read’ the Arab street.

maluhalasablogCornucopia of compelling design by Lebanese publishers, artists and musicians Dar Onboz. Their book Saba’a w 7, with illustrations by Fadi Adleh and story by Nadine Touma, was turned into a shadow puppet play in collaboration with Collectif Kahraba.

 

2/ You have a varied working life as an author, writer, editor and curator, what is the current project that you are working on?

With my two co-editors/co-curators Aram Tahhan and Nawara Mahfoud, I am presently finishing Syria Speaks: Art and Culture from the Frontline, an anthology of art and writing from the Syrian uprising. The book features cartoons, comic strips, art and photography alongside critical essays, and literature. Our contributors include writers Khaled Khalifa, Samer Yazbek, Yassin El Haj Saleh, Hassan Abbas, Yara Badr, Rasha Omran, and Ali Safar and artists Ali Ferzat, Masasit Mati, Alshaab Alsori Aref Tarekh, Youseff Abdelki, Khalil Younes, and Sulafa Hijazi, among many others. Syria Speaks came out of the exhibitions of Syrian uprising art that the three of us did in 2012-13 in Amsterdam, Copenhagen and London. The book, which will be published next year, is supported by the Prince Claus Fund for Culture and Development, in Amsterdam.

3/ Beirut has been described as ‘the Berlin of the Middle East’ by the two founders of Carwan Gallery, what similarities do you see?

Despite the political upheavals in Lebanon and on its borders, creatives in Beirut keep producing. Sivine Ariss from Dar Onboz just explained to me over skype now, “Our work is our resistance.” In many ways Beirut is not like Berlin, but like Berlin, Beirut supports its artists and designers by nourishing them culturally. Through these imaginative interactions with Arab culture – story telling and the oral tradition, and and with materials and the history of making in the region, Ariss and others provide new understanding not just about another place but life as it is lived now. Their work has meaning for us all.

Q&A with Lebanese space and product designer Najla El Zein

Don’t miss Najla El Zein in conversation with Pascale Wakim and Nicolas Bellavance-Lecompte, founders of Beirut’s Carwan Gallery. They will discuss ‘The Art of Contemporary Design from Beirut’ at The Mosaic Rooms, 12pm 14th September, find out more here.

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1/ Who is your favourite designer from the Middle East right now / why?
I have a lot of admiration for the Egyptian jewelry designer Azza Fahmy. Her designs are poetic and driven by her passion and fascination for ancient Egyptian history. Each of her pieces tells a specific story. I visited her factory in Cairo two years ago, and discovered thousands of meticulous hands creating the pieces. The artisanal work is mind-blowing and her designs have a unique contemporary touch.

2/ Describe 3 things you love about working in Beirut and 3 things you find most challenging about it?
Beirut is an emotionally bulimic city. After 3 years of living there, the city still manages to surprise me. Beirut encompasses paradoxical urban esthetics which are very interesting, hence inspiring, from materials to landscapes, local architecture to extreme urban infrastructure. One cannot deny the chaotic characteristic of Beirut, but this can also represent a source of creative freedom. Everything is possible.
One of Beirut’s challenges would be surviving within this chaos. It is a city where you have no choice but to live in the present moment, something which can have its positive but also negative sides. The uncertainty of tomorrow amid the surrounding urgencies causes constant interrogations.

3/ What inspired your latest piece of work ‘The Wind Portal’ (commission by the V&A, on show for London Design Festival 2013).
‘The Wind Portal’ was inspired by the idea of transitioning from one space to the other, through the sensorial experience of wind.
Within the context of the V&A, it is a transition from an inner space into an outer space, preparing the visitors to discover the galleries beyond. The installation also takes into consideration the architectural context of the space, which leads here to the day-lit gallery. The installation takes the shape of an eight meter high gate, composed of thousands of paper windmills spinning via an integrated wind system. The illusion is that of a closed gate which seems to open up as you get closer, revealing a passageway. There, is the climax of the installation, where an interplay between wind and light simulates an exaggeration of common sensorial experiences. The Wind Portal is situated at the entrance of the Day-lit Gallery, which showcases fragments of the city during Medieval Renaissance.

4/ Tell us about any future projects you have lined up that we should look out for?
We are currently working on our new spoon lamp sculpture, which combines gold and stainless steel spoons, 2852 in total. It will be exhibited at PAD london this coming October at the Smogallery booth.
The sculpture takes the shape of a reptile-like animal which seems to clamber up the wall. With its “skin” made out of spoons, the sculpture reflects its surroundings, thereby camouflaging and morphing into the existing context.

Najla’s installation The Wind Portal is on display at the V&A (14 September–3 November) as part of this year’s London Design Festival.

Q&A with the founders of Beirut’s Carwan Gallery, Pascale Wakim and Nicolas Bellavance-Lecompte

carwanblog2Founders of Carwan Gallery, Pascale Wakim and Nicolas Bellavance-Lecompte

1/ Tell us about the first ever object you commissioned? 

As a curator duo (Pascale and Nicolas) we co-commissioned the whole collection of objects we presented during Design Days Dubai in March 2012. Probably one of the most exciting objects was the Gradient Mashrabiya form Mischer’Traxler (covered by Wallpaper magazine here). The challenge was to give inspiration to this duo of Austrian designers to reinvent a traditional object like the mashrabiya from a culture they didn’t know much about. The experience of teaming them up with a Lebanese craftsman was a great experiment and brought many interesting reflections on function and aesthetics.

Studio mischer’traxler teamed up with an expert woodworker in Lebanon to redefine the constructive system of the traditional mashrabiyas: delicate wooden window screens often found in Middle Eastern architecture. Inspired by the process of lathing the small wooden parts for mashrabiyas, mischer’traxler focused on exposing the many steps of production, to make the craftsmen’s work visible and understandable to the observer. The result ” a sideboard ” is composed of a network of more than 650 distinct pieces of manually carved wood. From rectangular slats to refined decorative elements, all stages are visible within the one object, which becomes increasingly more defined, detailed, and fragile, but at the same time progressively more three-dimensional.

2/ Name Three up and coming designers from the Middle East who in your opinion show the most promise & briefly explain why you like their work and think they will be successful?

India Mahdavi (Paris): because Carwan Gallery will launch an incredible new collection entirely produced between Turkey and Lebanon with the Iznik foundation. It will be the first major launch for collectable design of the architect Mahdavi. She is an extremely creative architect and designer who uses her mixed cultural background between Europe and the Middle-East to sharpen a unique vision in design. Her experience in the fashion industry, before launching her studio, also gave her great skills in the manipulation of textures and colors.

carwanblogIndia Mahdavi – Landscape Table, Image courtesy of Carwan Gallery

Taher Asad-Bakhtiari (Tehran): a new up and coming designer from Iran preparing his first collection of unique kilims. His work was unveiled by Carwan Gallery for the very first time in the world during Design Days Dubai in March 2013.

imageTaher Asad – Bakhtiari Baz Kilim, Image courtesy of Carwan Gallery

Karen Chekerdjian (Beirut): Karen has an incredible sensibility that we appreciate very much. Her design is timeless and brings a geometric poetry that very few oriental designers have. Her new series of “ikebana” shaped mirrors will be for sure a great success.

3/ In your opinion who is the most influential established designer from the Middle East region? 

Nada Debs is probably the most influential and known designer in the region. She is a very inspiring businesswoman and what she managed to accomplish is remarkable.

4/ Why did you set up Carwan? Tell us briefly about Carwan’s mission and why it is important.

Carwan Gallery was founded with the desire to flourish the huge potential of an entire region, in terms of creativity, production capacities, sensibility and awareness towards design. Choosing the limited edition field to express its ambitions in a region where low-tech and craft productions are still the standards, the gallery multiplies various types of international collaboration to encourage cross-cultural dialogue, and push those standards into new directions. To create new venues taking the region as a constant source of inspiration, Carwan defines projects and collaborates with designers and architects whose unique approach can enrich the project vision.

We also focus on a mission on promoting “collectible design”, still unknown for a great majority of people in the Middle-East, it is a real challenge to push this new reality, help it grow, and encounter the public through exhibitions, exchanging and transmitting our passion, encouraging the wide potential of this region to emerge, and inspire more visitors to become collectors. Becoming a collector is accessible to everyone who has an interest in unique objects. Collecting is also investing in unique objects of which the value will grow with time while creating an unique environment of “functional art works” to live with.

Find out about their upcoming Pop Up Exhibition at The Mosaic Rooms here

Q&A with Resident Mara Goldwyn

1/ Why are you in London?

As Slavs and Tatars put it in the presentation of our recent book Friendship of Nations: Polish Shi’ite Showbiz, here at the Mosaic Rooms last week, everything the collective does begins and ends with books—except, of course, that a book is never an end, it is always another beginning.

As I am the group’s designated “idea detective” or perhaps “research directrice”—two terms I imagine to be polite euphemisms for a hopeless bibliomaniac like myself—I came to London to hunt for books. The Warburg library was one of my main destinations; the unpretentious and intuitive style of browsing there suits well our “lateral” thinking and research strategies.  I was not disappointed: I seemed to have tracked down unlikely ancient links between Turkic-Oghuz tamgas and Polish noble Sarmatian crests, the “psychogenetic” sources of letters, and some interesting theories by a mysterious turn-of-last-century gentleman named Sheikh Habeeb Ahmed about the numerological value of particular phonemes over several alphabets.

2/ What are your impressions of the city?

3/ Where have you come from and what is happening there right now?

I’ve come from my home in Berlin, Kreuzberg, where I’ve lived for many years now. Or as is the word du jour among the arterati, I’m based there.

The phrase based in Berlin pretty much sums up what’s happening in the city—people are rolling through like snails and not gathering much moss, but leaving behind a trail of creative slime, so to speak.

 There’s a cultural-capital bubble in Berlin that’s absolutely bulging at the moment, which, in my opinion, the city engages by producing ever more tragicomic imitations of itself.  That is not to say that there aren’t still interesting things happening there; maybe I’m just falling out of love… I just want my baby back the way she used to be.

4/ What was the last exhibition you saw and what did you think?

I had the chance to see the exhibition of Karl Bloßfeldt— breathtaking photographs and meticulous iconographic cataloguing of the “artforms” in plantlife—at the Whitechapel here in London. He was known for his 1929 book of photographs, Urformen der Kunst.

 Moments of overlap between science and its mystical forbears tend to excite me, especially those from the nethertime at the beginning of the 20th century, when the modern world was still working out the kinks. It’s always nice to have a reminder that those kinks are still pretty kinky. That is, no matter how far our telescopes can see, how many particles we collide or genes we splice, there is still a yawn of uncertainty as to what energy or force compelled all this beauty to be. It’s exhilarating.

5/ Who practising at the moment inspires you?

That’s a tough one. To be safe, I’ll just say the whole independent publishing industry, exemplified by our latest publisher, Book Works. The lack of distance—and hierarchy—between execution and distribution of ideas is very refreshing to me.

6/ Where are you travelling to next and what are you most looking forward to when you get there?

My next scheduled trip is to Istanbul to do research related to Slavs and Tatars’ current project, Long Legged Linguistics. I’ve spent much of the last several months researching alphabet politics in the former Soviet sphere, chasing down “extra” Cyrillic letters that were generated to represent sounds in Turkic, Finno-Ugric, Altaic and other types of languages, and now the focus is on a particular Turkic phoneme, ng, and its corresponding “extra” Arabic grapheme in contemporary Uighur and Ottoman Turkish, ? .  This is a letter that does not exist in the Arabic language but was rather made up to approximate a Turkic sound. While the sound and the letter are still hanging around Uighuristan in Western China, with the dramatic Romanization (“modernization”) of Turkish in Turkey in the late 20s, ng was dropped from the Turkish alphabet and, it seems, downplayed in the spoken language, now still traveling only very subtly through noses… nnnggg.

As I am writing this there have been further eruptions in Taksim and Gezi squares, it seems a particularly apt moment to be investigating the complexities of Turkish/Turkic national identities and the stakes of language politics…

7/ Where do you hope to be in five years?

I’ll quote Slavs and Tatars quoting an old Soviet maxim, “The future is certain. It is only the past that is unpredictable.”

Thank you Mara!

Mara was resident whilst undertaking research in London for the upcoming Slavs & Tartars solo engagements at the Dallas Museum of Art and GfZK Leipzig in 2014. Visit their website.

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